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The Federal election must be held prior to May 2022. OK, how I can I vote against both of these joke parties without wasting my vote? Advice welcome. I voted ALP from 1984 until 2004 (family history) and Liberal (urban seat) 2007 until now. I cannot vote for Morrison as he could have ended the vaccine nonsense instantly in 020 by invoking the Constitution and withdrawing Commonwealth funding but he failed and allowed borders to close. His loyalty to the WEF confirms my view. It is pity that the UAP and One Nation are not on the same ticket. I continue to admire some individuals in the ALP and LNP, but their parties are clearly not representative of the Australian population. Can we have a unified third way please? All the commentators here are wonderful but unless we can vote these people out it is just pissing in the wind. Solutions please…
Rom, you sum up the situation very well.
A third way seems to be eluding us at every election. My preferred solution would be an intellectually solid Christian Democrat party taking a swathe of seats from the Libs and Nats and effectively having a veto power over things like Net Zero.
Palmer/Kelly/ONP are disgruntlement parties, really. There needs to be more to change than that. Plus: the political reality is that the population no longer has the critical sensibilities it used to. The average working man in early twentieth century Australia was more informed and involved than people are now. Even in the 1980s and 90s, Federal governments could sell fiscal discipline as a plus and be elected on that platform. How would that go down these days?
I just think that voters can see Morrison for what he is….a clown.
Ukraine has an ex-clown as a President. Australia has a real clown as PM.
Whilst I detest Albanese, my loathing of Morrison knows no bounds. I believe he is the final nail in the coffin the Liberal Party of Australia. I watched him on Thursday night rabbiting on about freedom and sitting on my couch, I felt sick in my stomach. This clown has said nothing…nothing…for two years whilst state premiers trampled on the rights of ordinary Australians. What ensued in Victoria was a disgrace.
I believe Morrison, even more so than Turnbull, lacks any principles. I actually can’t envisage Turnbull setting up a National Cabinet (I don’t believe his ego would have allowed it) and perhaps being a lawyer (and Turnbull wasn’t a bad lawyer), he would have understood the constitutional ramifications. I also believe that Turnbull would have done more to keep state borders open. Having said all of that, hindsight is a wonderful thing!
But back to the clown. He’s destroyed the Liberal party. Who will I be voting for? I’ll vote LDP, there’s no one else. Wentworth has a very good LDP candidate. I don’t trust Clive Palmer, I remember how Palmer behaved from 2013 to 2016. I’m in Wentworth and up until the Religious Discrimination Bill a few weeks ago I retained a modicum of sympathy for Dave Sharma and, despite him being a wet lettuce leaf , I did hope that he’d win against Allegra Da Big Spender. No more. His behaviour crossing the floor wiped any lingering sympathy. Sharma is a far-left Green and he represents everything that’s wrong with the Liberal Party in 2022.
What, well he is the core driver of this policy and proudly so! Mr vaccine mandate himself.
As for arming Ukrainians, he could have armed the protestors here at home. More than that, he could have offered some shred of protection or even verbal defence for the innocent pedestrians who were not even protesting but still got bashed by uniforms for walking on a footpath, taking off a mask to sip a drink or briefly laying on a beach. Smirko is a vile man who has irrevocably denigrated Australia.
Our two options are not to vote at all or the use the preferential system to send a message as explained so well by Topher with his marbles.
I wouldn’t sweat the quality of the minor parties, provided not left they are a useful disruption especially in the Senate. Most independents are Laborgreen plants.
Romanitas
The compulsory voting/preferential system pretty much guarantees that the UNiParty (Labor/Liberal/National/Greens) will predominate in the House of Reps. The best course there is to put any reasonable minor party first, to deny the majors the AEC funding that goes with each primary vote (above a minimum limit). Then put preferences to others in random order, until putting the least-worst of the majors in your electorate in a position to eventually get the preference, then the others after that. The scrutineers will get the message.
In the Senate, do NOT vote above the line, even for a minor party. The preference deals made and kept quiet might lead your vote to go to someone you do not wish to receive it. Vote for at least the minimum required (the information should be on the ballot paper). Then as many more that you favour, then finally for the lowest one in the major parties that you could stomach (this is to ensure that a “creative” electoral official with a pencil does not add another number to steal your vote).
Romanitas says:
28 February, 2022 at 1:54 am
‘OK, how I can I vote against both of these joke parties without wasting my vote?’
If you despise The Greens, put them last; if you like them, just put a “1” next to them and leave the rest blank 😉
Then, put the sitting member, regardless of its uniparty affiliation 2nd last. Then, its opposite number 3rd last.
Then, any suspicious-looking independents (with major-friendly positions) next.
And finally, work your way to the top (doesn’t really matter what order), hopefully leaving someone you don’t mind too much with “1” next to their name.
In a voting system rigged toward the uniparty cabal, you vote them down and hope enough of your fellow citizens do similarly. Unlikely you will get a result but hey, you did your bit as best as you were able (it’s sobering to think what happens next if the voting system does not facilitate the removal of bad governments)
C.L. says:
28 February, 2022 at 2:20 am
‘Palmer/Kelly/ONP are disgruntlement parties, really.’
As true as this might be at least they are not evil and actively engaged in treason against the people they purport to represent (or “rule”, as they see it).
Let perfect not be the enemy of good, or at least the enemy of removing evil.
Firstly we still do not know if the polling organisations have learnt their lessons from the polling disaster of the last election.
You do not have to vote. You merely have to turn up and get your voting slip.
Free tip to the Liberal Party tactics committee: ban Peter Dutton from all media. Seriously. The bloke would scare a dog out of a butcher’s shop. All he does is talk about war, war and imminent war. He is frightening people and he looks as scary as he sounds.
Mea culpa. For a long time I’ve said compulsory voting plus the preference system was good, since it got the punters to think about who was going to be governing them. That tended to overcome the disengagement problem which afflicts many other countries, where turnouts were falling well below 50%.
Unfortunately I didn’t then understand the downside. Which occurs when both major parties effectively agree on fantasy stuff like net zero.
Then you are disenfranchised because a primary vote for someone like PHON, or the now defunct AC, turns into a preference vote for either the LNP or Labor, thereby voting for what you are trying to vote against.
After lots of thought I came to the conclusion that I must vote informal since otherwise I am a tiny bit culpable in the stupid lies of climate and covid these people are presently captured by.
I still prefer preferential voting to first-past-the-post and don’t see how a change in this area would result in a substantially-better outcome as opposed to just shifting a few deckchairs here and there.
At least I can put the minor parties first before having to decide the other of the majors at the bottom. If enough of us do that, them there is an increased chance of a minor getting a HoR seat, while I don’t have to worry that my minor-party vote will be immediately sidelined in first-past-the-post.
In both voting systems the real outcome we need is better engagement in the electorate. If they all got to understand Topher’s marble video that would be a great improvement. How many are ignorant of their ability to ignore HTV cards, let alone understand their power in doing so? Unfortunately it’s in the majors’ best interests to keep the electorate ignorant and uninterested in electoral matters; that way the votes are more-likely to be in the majors’ favour.
Non Mentis
Firstly we still do not know if the polling organisations have learnt their lessons from the polling disaster of the last election.
A few days and not many threads ago, you were (at least implicitly) extolling the wonders of political polling, now you have changed your mind? Or do you just change your beliefs to suit the day’s topics?
Nelson_Kidd-Players says:
28 February, 2022 at 10:52 am
I still prefer preferential voting to first-past-the-post and don’t see how a change in this area would result in a substantially-better outcome as opposed to just shifting a few deckchairs here and there.
I would be happier with optional preferential. At least with that, I am not forced (ultimately) to vote for parties I despise.
Yes, Non Mentis, before you get back on your high horse, I know I only have to get ticked off a list, and can destroy my ballot, but (unlike, apparently, you) I believe citizens should be involved in elections.
Boofhead there was a polling disaster last election. Kevin Bonham was very good on it. Even Andrew Gelman from afar commented on it. I have always said this.
Get back on those blue pills
Non Mentis
Sure, sure you have, except for the times you defended political polling. As well as failing kindy, you seem to be suffering from short term memory loss. See a doctor, they might be able to help.
PS, the polling disasters occurred rather more times than last election, but you have probably forgotten. Not having a mind can effect you that way. Not sure that doctors can help you with that.
really when
Non Mentis
If you can’t remember what you post here, that is your problem, not mine. You should have paid more attention in kindy.
I think Scomo is probably gone, they still don’t have candidates for heaps of electorates and Zimmerman, Hawke appear to have been auto endorsed. Why would the party faithful vote for them?
The only reason i say probably is because Albo is such a hack. He appears to have a massive tin ear and simply amplifies the echo chamber. Also, I don’t at all trust the polling, time and again, Polling companies seem to think their job is to give an impression the alp will win right up until the last week when they tighten it all up.
ScoMo’s last remaining hope is that somehow Albo gets the idea to go out and talk to the electorate.
First task is learn how preference work in Australia’s electoral system … there are no wasted votes, you can put a minor party as first preference and it does not matter one iota if that party loses, your vote has every bit as much strength on the second preference.
https://www.howtofixtheelection.com/ballot/irv/
Not sure if those help, but it gives the general idea … a preferential system favours SMALL parties because it removes the cost of putting a small party as your first preference.
The major parties win because a very large number of voters put them down as first preference and follow exactly what the “how to vote” card tells them to do. The voters do this of their own free will (perhaps because they don’t know any better) and the preferential system gives the voters what they ask for. The Greens were able to get themselves up and running from almost nothing to a significant political player, and if they can do it then there’s no excuses for any genuine conservative party.
Second task is to figure out how to explain how our system works to the very large number of people who still don’t understand it an believe:
* Your vote gets weaker as it goes down the preference chain.
* The party gets to decide your preferences.
* You need to follow the “how to vote” card.
All of these are wrong, but you just can’t stop people believing them.
Whatever you do, vote the Liberals last. Yes, even below the Greens. They need to by destroyed. Once that is done, maybe, just maybe, a conservative party will rise and fill the ‘void’ for people who think the Liberals were a right wing party.
Best chance of that at the minute is UAP, so they will get my vote this year. Palmer might be dodgy, but he’s on the right side of the important issues at the minute.
I would prefer a system where you could prevent your preference ever flowing to a particular party. Unfortunately that is not possibly with the Federal system since you must number all boxes.
In that vein I’d like a FPP system with no preference voting since that would let me vote for a party which reflects my position. And I would not then have to preference some other party which advocates stuff I detest – which is the case regarding the Libs, Nats and ALP.
In NSW there is optional preferential voting for state elections, Bruce I’m assuming you voted 1 only in the last NSW state election? It seems to be a good option, particularly where a big party person really cannot stomach a candidate or policy and does not want to even give them a preference but doesn’t want to vote informal or worse for the lying parties.
Happy to help.
Albanese [that’s the Labor guy] says everyone must be vaccinated.
Scotty [that’s the bloke you’re supposed to hate] has made it clear that’s not happening.
So, the choice is simple:
Vote to get injected with something invented in a secret Ukraine BioLab, or vote Liberal.
Not going to get a Christian Demoncrat party until a lot more people embrace Christianity.