Who would be dumb enough to join a “catastrophic” war?

We need to play into that debate in Beijing, play into the debate about whether Xi Jinping’s foreign policy has, after all, been so smart; by the way, ending up an ally of Russia’s in its catastrophic war in Ukraine. This is not the time to ease off.”

That’s Alexander Downer, introduced by Andrew Bolt last night as our best-ever Foreign Minister. Reluctantly accepting the positives of the Albanese government’s thawing of relations with China, the co-architect of Australia’s involvement in the lost Iraq and Afghanistan Wars says (rightly) that Beijing must still be opposed by all diplomatic means, utilitarian modus vivendi or no. A former board member of CCP espionage front, Huawei – that hasn’t aged well – Downer realises that the behaviour (not the nature) of China has changed but does he understand why?

I always liked Downer and respected his combative, withering contempt for Labor. Unfortunately, the fetishisation of economics discourse in Australia doomed a tilt at The Lodge for a British/Euro-style Adelaidean more adept at words than numbers. However, the blind spot he shares with most foreign policy ‘experts’ is the unwillingness to admit that China is colonising a moral vacuum. The seesaw hinge of history for its strategic ascendancy and our descent was twenty years of failed war and moral collapse within Western societies. A ‘culture’ that spends a month celebrating sodomy is not going to win the non-white or influence them. In April, Paul Kelly acknowledged the head-start China had in the Solomon Islands: “But the pro-Christian, rugby-loving Pacific is not necessarily a comfortable fit with Beijing.” But it is with the nation that blacklisted Israel Folau? I don’t think so. More positively, it was pleasing to see Downer politely ignore Bolt’s idea of a second “axis of evil.” We haven’t prosecuted all the men sent to fight the original one yet.

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30 Responses to Who would be dumb enough to join a “catastrophic” war?

  1. NoFixedAddress says:

    C.L.

    It will be alright on the night!

    I have utter contempt and loathing for Downer who is an elitist to elitists.

    Why the United Nations is a joke, chapter 12,186:

    North Korea, Under Sanctions for Developing Nuclear Weapons, Takes Helm of UN Disarmament Body

    GENEVA — Dozens of mostly Western countries criticized North Korean “reckless actions” in its weapons programs as its government on Thursday took over the rotating presidency of the U.N.-backed Conference on Disarmament.

    But apparently no one in the UN can rouse themselves to kick the Norks out of the chair of the Disarmament Conference. Churchill called the disarmament negotiations of the 1930s “a prolonged and solemn farce.” This is more like slapstick than farce.

  2. Petros says:

    You are forgetting Downer’s role in bringing down Trump.

  3. Pommy Al says:

    Downer is just another one of the so-called experts media morons run to for comments.
    As far as I’m concerned dolt has joined that class of morons.
    Ignoring everything these fuckwits say is our only hope.
    Not holding my breath.

  4. Perplexed of Brisbane says:

    I’ve never understood why such a smart and resourceful country as the USA is such an abject failure at geopolitics (except maybe under Trump).

    We sit under their nuclear umbrella with the payoff being that they will ensure nuclear non-proliferation outside the big five. Now the number is up to nine with probably a 10th one in Iran soon to join the club and still we have nothing. I doubt we could even count on the US to go nuclear on our behalf or even rattle the sabres.

    We should have had our own nuclear industry when the Brits stopped nuking us and we had the know how to do it all ourselves. We could have our own deterrent, enough to make a superpower pause. I’m not saying we would win an exchange but we could have kicked them in the nuts on our way out.

    Are we somehow more untrustworthy than the Pakis, NK’s and Iran? As a moot point, I don’t think we can trust a Democrat government in the US and I don’t think a Republican government (a real one led by Trump or De Santis) could trust an ALP government already smoking Xi or an LNP government for that matter. Maybe we should take control of our own destiny?

    Plus, with our own power generation, no blackouts.

  5. Chris M says:

    Brave or bored witless to watch an episode of Downer and Bolt. Former conservatives, both of them have, well gone downer so to speak.

  6. Not Trampis says:

    Downer never had the intellect or work ethic to set up an institution like the International Crisis Group like Gareth Evans did.

    I laugh out loudly when CL who was a fervent supporter of the illegal invasion of Iraq now wants to known as a person who opposed it.

    Trump was such an idiot he stopped the successful program of preventing Iran having a nuclear weapon to what is occurring now. He was warned but of course ignored everyone on this. We now have to suffer the consequences of that disgraceful decision.

    Australia did not blacklist Folau rugby Australia did. Just quietly a lot of people were disappointed Folau settled so we do not know whether a person can be sacked from their job for merely paraphrasing bible verses.

  7. Boambee John says:

    Non Mentis

    Downer never had the intellect or work ethic to set up an institution like the International Crisis Group like Gareth Evans did.

    Ah, yes, the ICG, the only apparent success of which was to get the “Responsibility to Protect” philosophy up. Which was then used to justify silly interventions in strange places. Great success for Gareth-Gareth, NOT.

    Trump was such an idiot he stopped the successful program of preventing Iran having a nuclear weapon to what is occurring now.

    Step away from the bong, nitwit.

  8. C.L. says:

    Gareth Evans will be remembered for three things: illegally scrambling an RAAF spy plane to Tasmania, committing adultery with Cheryl Kernot and being the most incompetent Opposition Treasury spokesman in Australian history.

  9. NoFixedAddress says:

    Step away from the bong, nitwit.

    or stop spraying it with LSD!

    Dem leaders are so old, they call baby boomers “sonny”

    President Donald John Trump celebrates his 76th birthday tomorrow.

    He is still too young to be a Democrat House leader.

    Those three stooges are Pelosi, 81; Jim Clyburn, 82; and Steny Hoyer, 82. Their combined age is 245. Congress has existed for only 233 years.

  10. Lee says:

    Trump was such an idiot …

    What does that make your gibbering, doddering old mate, Biden, hey?
    LOL.

  11. C.L. says:

    the illegal invasion of Iraq

    The war was authorized by Congress (Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution) and by the UN (United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441).

    I came to see the broader, endless ‘war on terrorism’ as not only a mistake militarily but an even bigger mistake for what it did to the freedom of citizens in Coalition countries. Biden’s evacuation of Kabul – the most humiliating disgrace in US military history – proved I was right. So did the Russia Hoax – which was pushed by various institutions and individuals in Washington DC that had come to believe anything was permissible under ‘national security’ auspices.

    Obama’s nuclear “deal” was being used as cover for Tehran to slowly but surely build a bomb. Mossad established Iran was stockpiling enriched uranium for precisely this purpose. Unfortunately, Obama forgot to lock in any serious verification protocols – oops – which is why the mullahs laughed at his “deal,” knowing also he would eventually be out of office. When Trump came along and demanded serious protocols and serious commitments to stop Iran’s funding of terrorism, Tehran crapped itself.

  12. Buccaneer says:

    Gareth Evans, the Troy Buswell of federal politics

  13. Not Trampis says:

    CL still poor on law.
    The reason to invade Iraq was in fact shite. anyone knew beforehand except of course CL. They never had any decent weapons to threaten anyone or forces to threaten a country.
    an AG can authorise a plane to fly over anywhere in Australia.
    Evans never bugged a third world country to get a better deal on oil either.
    I do believe Julie bishop was possibly the worst treasury spokesperson in opposition. Barnaby Joyce easily the worst finance spokesman.

    Aj Iran. Actually mossad didn’t say that all. the israeli PM at the time made a load of allegations but mostly about Iran BEFORE the deal.

    The deal was working very well as attested by the security agencies in the US and the other countries.
    so what did the Obese man do?
    He ensured the radicals would win again elections the moderates won in a landslide chiefly because of the agreement made which would mean the Iran econmy would improve.
    wow the IEA disagree with CL on this who would have thought.
    It also meant Iran would go back to attempting to produce a nuclear weapon.
    Everyone lost.

    wow another subject Cl does not have a clue about. There are a lot of them.

  14. Buccaneer says:

    wow another subject Cl does not have a clue about. There are a lot of them.

    Says the person who can’t construct a coherent sentence…

  15. Boambee John says:

    Non Mentis

    They never had any decent weapons to threaten anyone or forces to threaten a country.

    Still sticking to the “narrative”. Iraq had the weapons, but Saddam was bluffed into destroying them, he didn’t tell his generals. Four Corners did a show on them, talking to an Australian who was a weapons inspector. Do try to keep better informed.

    an AG can authorise a plane to fly over anywhere in Australia.

    You would have been happy for a Coalition AG to authorise flights over Victoria, to see what Talidan’s Stasi was up to last year? Gutsy call from a fool.

    Evans never bugged a third world country to get a better deal on oil either.

    That we know of.

    The deal was working very well as attested by the security agencies in the US and the other countries.

    I’m old enough to remember when leftists completely distrusted security agencies. Those agencies also attested to Iraq’s possession of chemical weapons, and his plans for nuclear weapons.

    It also meant Iran would go back to attempting to produce a nuclear weapon.

    What makes you think that Iran ever stopped? Perhaps you could lay out your proof? Or perhaps not.

  16. C.L. says:

    The reason to invade Iraq was in fact shite. anyone knew beforehand except of course CL. They never had any decent weapons to threaten anyone or forces to threaten a country.

    That’s not what you said. You said it was “illegal.”

    Wrong.

    an AG can authorise a plane to fly over anywhere in Australia

    Really? He can send a Taipan helicopter to spy on a citizen, can he?

    Bullshit.

    The deal was working very well as attested by the security agencies in the US and the other countries.

    LOL. Are those the same security agencies that said Iraq had WMD? The ones that said Hunter’s laptop was Russian disinfo?

    Barack Obama gave a green light to Iran to stockpile uranium and heavy water and pretended that his “deal” would matter after he left office. Tehran plays the long game. Iran paraded its new medium-range ballistic missile (the Khoramshahr) in 2017; its a range was 2,000 km. Everyone knows what it’s for.

    Trump was right to call for more stringent protocols. 100 per cent right.

  17. Lee says:

    NT never fails to amaze with his constant shifting of the goalposts and use of obfuscation.

  18. Boambee John says:

    Lee

    He has to keep shifting the goalposts, as he is not capable of defending, with actual data, any of his many (more than the Karma Sutra) positions. Look back at any thread where Non Mentis (the one without a mind) has babbled on interminably. Remove the stupid attempts at insults (“deplorables”), try to make the garbled sentences readable, and what is there? Nothing coherent. Nothing consistent.

  19. Jannie says:

    Downer had a small role to play in the conspiracy against Trump, and the promotion of the Steele dossier as genuine intelligence. He has always made my skin crawl.

  20. Jannie says:

    I don’t think its possible to argue with a stream of consciousness informed by the graffiti on the back of a Uni toilet door.

    Just saying.

  21. C.L. says:

    I remember him sticking it to Labor in Question Time and being a pretty happy warrior – which I liked. He was unsaleable as a prime minister, though.

  22. jupes says:

    Speaking of Gareth-Gareth, he was on my news feed today (goodness knows why), congratulating the Elbow government, in particular Penny Wong, for NOT signing a proposal for the UNHRC to stop picking on Israel.

    So my question is, seeing as though we are cool with Jew-bashing in the UN, and keen to materially support Nazis in the Ukraine, isn’t it time we welcomed the notorious Garage Nazis back into the fold?

  23. Petros says:

    Exactly Jupes. So can we display swastikas or not? Getting mixed messages now.

  24. Not Trampis says:

    oh dear let us go through CL shite shall we.
    The invasion of Iraq was illegal because there was no valid reason for it. They could not threaten their neighbours let alone the USA.

    The aeroplanes Evans authorised did not spy on anyone. They merely took photographs!
    Every security agency was asked and they said Iran was sticking to the agreement. All other countries agreed with this. It was the USA who broke the agreement.

    Let us not forget this played into the ‘radicals’ hands who said the USA were untrustworthy. After easily winning the Presidency because most Iranians thought the agreement would lead to stronger growth they got smashed in the next election. now that is stupidity of the highest order.

    Yes they can could have missiles but they did not have any nuclear warheads unlike say Israel.
    If you are so stupid to think Iran would send such a missile to Israel what do you think Israel would do with any of its 200 odd nuclear missiles.

    As in any subject you know 2/3 of buggerall.

  25. Boambee John says:

    Non Mentis

    The invasion of Iraq was illegal because there was no valid reason for it.

    Only in your fantasies.

    The aeroplanes Evans authorised did not spy on anyone. They merely took photographs!

    The Peeping Tom did not spy on the lady in her bedroom, he only took photographs!

    Every security agency was asked and they said Iran was sticking to the agreement.

    The same security agencies that swore that Saddam had WMD? They know where their budgets come from.

    Yes they can could have missiles but they did not have any nuclear warheads unlike say Israel.

    “can could”? Isn’t that a resort in Mexico?

    And those same security agencies that said Saddam had WMD said Iran didn’t? Well, that settles that!

    As in any subject you know 2/3 of buggerall.

    The judgement of an eggspurt in knowing buggerall?

  26. Tel says:

    The invasion of Iraq was illegal because there was no valid reason for it.

    Based on that reasoning, capital gains tax would also be illegal.

  27. Lee says:

    The aeroplanes Evans authorised did not spy on anyone. They merely took photographs!

    You are plumbing new depths in stupidity or naivety.

  28. Boambee John says:

    Lee

    As Insty would say, “Embrace the power of ‘and’ “.

  29. Lee says:

    John; LOL!

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