Голос

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21 Responses to Голос

  1. Jannie says:

    “Sham” is the official word direct from the White House. Haha, talk about the difference between opinion and fact. Once upon a time this sort of call was known as jumping to a conclusion without evidence. These days neither opinion nor facts require supporting evidence.

  2. C.L. says:

    All that matters is that if the plebiscites are won, acknowledged by the Russian parliament and ratified, any foreign incursions or attacks in those territories will constitute attacks on Russia itself.

    As for their sham-ness, international supervision would be preferable in normal circumstances but is obviously impossible now.

    For the West to ignore the plebiscites and continue with endless war in those oblasts would be lunacy.

  3. cuckoo says:

    It’s faintly cheering to see that one poll is suggesting the ‘voice’ is yet to get majority support in any state. I’ve always assumed that the referendum will pass along purely knee-jerk emotional lines (see gay ‘marriage’), but hopefully fail in the implementation.

  4. NoFixedAddress says:

    cuckoo says:
    23 September, 2022 at 7:43 am

    Don’t get too excited just yet awhile.

    Has the Australian Electoral Commission finished counting all the Senate votes yet?

  5. Not Trampis says:

    a plebiscite in a territory illegally taken is a sham.
    We also have history to show this has been the case in the past.

  6. C.L. says:

    a plebiscite in a territory illegally taken is a sham.

    That means the Voice plebiscite is a sham – according to the Australian left.

  7. Petros says:

    Brilliant, CL. All of our laws, plebiscites, referenda etc are invalid then. Tramp better go back to his ancestral homeland. I’m pretty sure the Voice thing won’t get up without significant cheating.

  8. Not Trampis says:

    That isn’t even a good deflection.
    Are you saying you are saying previous plebiscites in occupied Ukrainian territories were okay.

    By the by a referendum is not a plebiscite.

  9. bollux says:

    “Voters are very confused over Indigenous Voice: survey.”
    No we’re not.

  10. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Unfortunately referenda in the occupied parts of Ukraine would be meaningless now, same as a referendum in Syria or Iraq would be.

    I think it could’ve been possible to do such things pre-2014, and be an elegant diplomatic way of getting what Putin wanted*. What could’ve potentially been done then would be to allow Ukraine to join the EU and/or NATO on the basis of a province by province referendum on secession. The east probably would’ve chosen that, and the referendum then would’ve stuck.

    Now though the only outcomes possible are either unending fratricidal war or a Partition like India with ethnicities mass migrating. And the latter would be very messy and very bloody.

    (* I think he would’ve settled for the Russophile bits if he’d been advised better by his intelligence people. Alas they all really seem to’ve believed that ordinary Ukrainians would acquiesce to Russian troops upon arrival, like the 2 day Prague Spring invasion of 1968.)

  11. Bluey says:

    As I understand it, at least two of the provinces in Ukraine did vote to join Russia in 2014, but the Russian government turned them down after the mess with Crimea joining.
    Thus the can got kicked down the road…

  12. Buccaneer says:

    Bruce, there’s no guarantee Putin would have accepted that, the Kievan Rus are regarded to be the founders of modern Russia and I think there is some idea that it is Russian territory. The reality is different though and Ukrainians don’t feel modern Russia represents them at all since the Holodomor which is the main reason there is even a conversation about ‘ethnic russians’. In reality Russia is a vast territory with a conglomerate of ethnicities. Even Ukraine is probably not that homogeneous as the Mongols ruled over part of it for centuries but not all.

  13. NoFixedAddress says:

    What is the difference between the Russian and Ukrainian leadership

    What is the difference between the Ukrainian and Russian leadership?

    I would really like to know.

  14. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Buccaneer – Yeah, what you say fits the situation pretty well. The Ukrainians and Russians have been diverging culturally over the last century, so there’s less and less common ground. It’s like the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda, who are ethnically identical but tribally completely antagonistic.

    Vlad has invoked Peter the Great, and Shoigu the return of the Soviet Empire. Neither meme is going to make any friends in that part of Europe.

  15. and says:

    Are you saying you are saying…

    Is that what you’re saying you’re saying?

  16. Riversutra says:

    Are you saying you are saying…
    Is that what you’re saying you’re saying?

    It is time for us to say what we have been saying and that time is every day.

  17. Buccaneer says:

    Vlad has invoked Peter the Great, and Shoigu the return of the Soviet Empire. Neither meme is going to make any friends in that part of Europe.

    Yeah, I agree, folks tend to remember the time your predecessors deliberately starved you population more acutely than the times you might have worked together. The Cossacks didn’t support the Nazis because they thought they were a benign force, they just thought they were the lesser of two evils.

  18. Fat Tony says:

    “Voters are very confused over Indigenous Voice: survey.”

    Brought to us by the same people who coined the phrase “vaccine hesitancy”…

  19. Lee says:

    “a plebiscite in a territory illegally taken is a sham.”

    That means the Voice plebiscite is a sham – according to the Australian left.

    Brilliant response, C.L.
    Game, set, match.

  20. Fat Tony says:

    What is the difference between the Ukrainian and Russian leadership?
    I would really like to know.

    The Russian leadership is not owned by Biden’s puppetmasters – and that’s what really shits them.

  21. Tel says:

    a plebiscite in a territory illegally taken is a sham.

    Any comment on Kossovo? You probably don’t know where that is, nor why it’s relevant … because the ABC hasn’t spoon fed you that … go look it up, I’ll wait.

    I should point out that the Donbass declared independence in 2014 … which I presume is also news to you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbas_status_referendums

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