Hop, Scipio and Jump

ONE of the worst crimes of the historical kind committed by neo-cons over the past 18 months has been to dumb down Winston Churchill to a Hallmark audio card with a cigar-toting bulldog draped in a Ukrainian flag on the front and a voice declaring “We shall never surrender!” inside. Only now are a few of them trying out new comparisons to enliven the op-ed set. Why? Because it’s becoming obvious to increasingly impoverished and abused populations – if not to their governments – that America’s mindless proxy war in Europe cannot be won. Winston is suddenly shopworn. A column in The Australian by William Hague is an example of the fresh approach. The former Conservative Party leader’s objective was to find a conflict in history where an arrogant “larger force” – believing itself invincible – was bested by a smaller but cannier foe. He chose the Battle of Cannae in 216BC, in which Hannibal’s Carthaginians destroyed a much bigger Roman army. Lord Hague notes what happened to Carthage 60-odd years later but he doesn’t see that as ominous beyond the lifespan of Vladimir Putin. A true strategist would. But then, the same Lord was one of the most senior leaders in a Coalition that eventually lost the Afghanistan War, an example surpassing all others of a grand army thrashed by minnows. Ancient history is a witless place to hide.

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12 Responses to Hop, Scipio and Jump

  1. NFA says:

    One wonders if abandoning Afghanistan after 20 years was more about ‘clearing the decks’ to focus on the real enemy, Putin.

    I gather from internet bits and pieces that the proxy war against Putin is also occurring in the Central African Republic where a Christian majority population supported by Putin is defending itself against Islamic terrorists supported by western neo-cons!

    Just get rid of Putin and the world will embrace the new wef order.

    How long before Australia sends boots on the ground?

  2. Roger W says:

    The propaganda (ie lies) in the Western MSM are so extensive that it is impossible to know at present what is actually happening in Ukraine.
    One thing for sure, the truth will eventually emerge and I believe will be very negative for the West in general and the USA in particular.
    It is particularly ironic that Putin seems to be the one fighting for the traditional values of Western Civilization.

  3. Buccaneer says:

    It’s yet to be seen who might snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in a similar manner to Hannibal. Scipio radically changed Roman battle tactics to be not so dissimilar from the battle tactics that have served Russia so well against Napoleon and Hitler. Like the Romans, Putin has a significant resource advantage and the West’s tactic of starving him out via sanctions does not seem to be working.

    The stakes in this conflict are much higher than the MSM seems willing to admit. The US actions seem more closely aligned to Vietnam than to Cannae, they haven’t declared war on their opponent and think they can fight the war through a proxy. In Vietnam they at least put boots on the ground. They are so far in now, that defeat would be no more insulated from shame as the Vietnam debacle either. If the cause is so great, then at what point do boots go in, and what then?

    One thing seems clear, the people guiding the Western response to this don’t seem to be either students of history or diplomacy.

  4. Bruce of Newcastle says:

    Actually Hannibal’s campaign is a good example of exactly what Ukraine is doing. After Cannae the Romans fought on without surrendering. And Hannibal couldn’t get the Roman people to accept him as victor. Without allies in Italy he could not replace losses, and supply wasn’t so easy, such that eventually he had to leave Italy.

    I’m basing this on the section of Gibbon that I read a long time ago, so I may not have the detail correct. But the Ukies are doing the same thing to Putin that the Romans did to Hannibal. And as you say Carthage was destroyed 60 years later – because the Romans were totally fed up with the Carthaginians’ bad behaviour. Of course the Carthaginians probably felt the same way about the Romans. He said she said, like this war.

    I’m not seeing a repeat of the 1905 Revolution happening anytime soon, but I’m sure the pundits are angling for just such an outcome. By overextending unfortunately Putin is losing everything he worked for for thirty years after the fall of the Soviet Union. Which is a pity.

    Ukraine Joins NATO’s Cyber Defense Center in Estonia (16 May)

    One step closer…

  5. Crusader says:

    As a surrender monkey, what is your preferred cheese, CL?

  6. NFA says:

    Fuck off crusada rat.

  7. David Archibald says:

    Back in the 1960s, three million Israelis held off 300 million Arabs. It can be done.

  8. Eyrie says:

    Back in the 1960s, three million Israelis held off 300 million Arabs. It can be done.

    Stupid comment – check the key word “Arabs”.

  9. DAN says:

    Recall fellas, that the rulers of Carthage thought that Rome would come to the negotiation table, especially after Cannae. They were merchants and deal makers, so that seemed the logical outcome, particularly after Cannae. The idea that Rome and the Romans understood the war as an all-out war, an all out challenge where one side would be entirely reduced, probably didn’t even occur to them until it was too late to reinforce Hannibal.

    Hannibal was calling for reinforcements after Trasamine, and definitely after Cannae. He didn’t have the numbers and equipment to besiege Rome. And his victory at Cannae blinded the rulers in Carthage to the opportunity before them, which they did not seize.

    Remember too that Scipio was a younger officer at Cannae, and only by chance escaped the destruction meted out to Rome that day. He was assigned the defense of the camp and supplies. He would have been able to see it all, though there must have been a tremendous amount of dust kicked into the air by both the cavalry engagements and the movement of various forces along the flanks of the Romans.

    As for the change of tactics proposed by Scipio, it was not a Fabian policy, but a policy of taking the war to the homefront of Carthage. Hannibal didn’t leave Italy, he was ordered from Italy by the rulers of Carthage, who summoned him home to confront Scipio who was threatening the city itself.

    Scipio did however adopt Hannibal’s approach of extending his flanks looking for opportunities to entirely encircle and destroy an army.

    One of the more fascinating meetings in history occurred the night before the battle, where the middle-aged Hannibal meets Scipio face to face. Supposedly they looked at each other for some time before Hannibal first spoke.

  10. DAN says:

    Washington keeps seeing the issue as a European one, not taking into account that Russia’s credibility is entirely involved, particularly in regard to that long, long front that Russia has with China, which is nothing but a line on an international map separating the greedy, evil families overseeing China, and the vast, VAST resources of Siberia.

    What the Obama administration creatures are doing is utterly brain-dead, (Victoria Nuland, and Samantha Powers, they’re the ones running this attempted coup of Russia, this whole damn thing was planned in the 2d term of the Obama idiocy). They think they can remove Putin, break up the Russian Federation, and then auction off the resources of all of Russia to the various financial vampires with the money to tender a bid, (Rothschilds…?). It’s utterly evil.

    One more thing too, they think they can offer China the territory to the East of the Urals, and somehow this grand bargain will procure a lasting peace. THIS is just another variant of the grand bargain they were begging Iran to accept, where Iran would be guaranteed nukes and also offered a vast sphere of influence extending over the whole Persian Gulf and over non- Persians and non-Shiites.

    What the obama administration creatures did to race relations in the United States they’re now doing to the global scene.

    All I see are Caucasian Christians killing each other over a dispute forced upon them by the Nulands of this existence. Haven’t there been enough Caucasians killing each other throughout history to satisfy even the blood lust of all the anti-Christians and anti-Europeans out there? Caucasians are already a smaller percentage of the peoples of the Earth compared to others, such as Asians and Africans.

    When is enough killing indeed enough? Ukraine and Russia were already staring a demographic implosion dead in the eye before this insane war pushed by creatures devoted to global depopulation efforts, (shots, famine, and anal, Onanistic enthusiasms rammed down the throats of little kids).

  11. C.L. says:

    Dan, I thoroughly enjoyed those enlightening comments.

    You’ve nailed the motivations for the war in Ukraine and made a few other points I haven’t encountered elsewhere or thought of myself. I was especially struck by what you said about Christians being baited into killing each other. To his credit, Pope Francis does seem to be one of two state leaders who see what the Americans are encouraging. The other being Orban – who is also a State Department and CIA target.

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