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Reminds me of the former commenter on this blog who was emphatic that there were virtually no Ukrainian Nazis during WWII.
I think there is possibly a difference between serving your country in the war, even in the SS, and running about send Jews to the camps. This guy has been openly living in Canada for years. I would think if the Israelies had anything against him it would have been sorted in one way or another by now.
Canada with the communists like WEF Trudeau in charge of destroying the country is a “shitz hole”.
5-Eyes Intel Informed Trudeau’s Accusation Against India for Sikh Separatist Murder – Diaspora In Canada Is Embattled as New Delhi Suspends Visa Applications
I think that’s right, Entrop, but the point is you don’t invite a member of the Waffen SS to a state occasion. It doesn’t matter if he was a drummer boy.
Maybe Entropy but that is beside the point.
The Canadian Parliament rose as one and gave a standing ovation to a former member of the Waffen SS, the organisation led by Heinrich Himmler. Hunka was fighting for Nazi Germany and had sworn an oath to Adolph Hitler. In a country where (previously at least) Nazis are considered the scum of the earth, this was monumentally epic. Canadians are now openly siding with Nazis.
I would say you are right.
Sorry hit the post button before finishing.
He does not deserve unpersonning, but neither should he be feted.
Irony at one level in being disturbed at one man for having associated with nazis in a fight against Russians while lauding another for the same thing.
In related news, notice how Ukraine’s nail-bomb attack on civilians in a market has been disappeared?
Zelensky Asks Spirit Cooker Marina Abramovic to be Ambassador for Ukraine, Help ‘Rebuild Schools’
The left routinely uses Nazis and Nazism as a reason to invalidate arguments, unperson people and as a gotcha in many situations. Ask Moira Deeming how it works. Trudeau certainly won’t get the Deeming treatment and she certainly didn’t invite them like Trudeau did.
Justin Trudeau and Ukraine President Zelenskyy Honor Nazi Veteran During Canadian Parliament Session
September 24, 2023 | Sundance
Also note that while Hunka was fighting for the Nazis on the eastern front, Canadian troops were fighting against the Nazis on the western front. Canada was allied with the USSR from 1941 to the end of the war.
The decision by Trudeau and / or the Canadian Parliament is beyond bizarre.
Canada has a large Ukrainian population, many of which are descended from post-WWII refugees who have a…let’s say nuanced take on Nazi collaboration and the mass-murder of Jews and Poles. Like the expat Ukrainians in the UK and the USA they tend to have drunk deep of the virulently russophobic Banderite Kool-Aid. Stepan Bandera’s own grandson, Stephan Bandera, is a journalist in Canada.
Canada’s Deputy PM and Finance Minister, Chrystia Freeland, is the grand-daughter of a Galician Nazi collaborator, Mykhailo Khomiak. He was the chief editor of a nastily anti-semitic propaganda rag in Nazi-occupied central Europe during ze war.
It’s a truly weird aspect to Canada that the Ukraine lobby is so strong, but over the border in the USA it’s quite common for foreign policy to be captured by expats and/or their descendants with an ethnic axe to grind.
Ukraine Hires Dylan Mulvaney As New Spokesperson
Oh come now Buc … you know it’s different when they do it.
Without hypocrisy, how can we have Socialism?
We all know, however, our job is hold them up to their own standard, when that happens properly, they fall over.
The SS Galicia was Waffen SS, which were primarily combat troops, fair enough. But they were not very well trained and got almost wiped out by the Russians at Brody. Subsequently SS Galicia units were involved in repressing “partisans” and unarmed civilians in Yugoslavia and Poland, dirty work where many murderous crimes were committed. Elements of them were present at the Warsaw Ghetto suppression. They had the notorious Dirlewanger Brigade attached to them at one point.
These were not noble soldiers fighting for their freedom, They were amongst the worst of the SS. Adjectives and adverbs cannot describe this kind of evil.
The thing is I had to hover-check it was the Bee.
Indeed.
It’s not just the ex-pats, though, Fyodor. The Banderite mentality is alive and well in Ukraine itself. The way – and the rapidity with which – the media rehabilitated Ukraine and covered all that up would be astonishing in an age where such disturbing manipulation wasn’t as routine as it is today.
The Banderites made the decision at the time that Nazism was better than Stalinism, this decision was made in the light of the holodomor. It’s hard to condemn decisions made from hardship you didn’t have to endure.
That said, one might hope self reflection can happen at some point.
True Buccaneer. But they don’t regretfully try to explain it away, they have made it central to their Heroic Epic. Self reflection is verboten.
I don’t really accept that the Holodomor explains the Bandarites’ enthusiasm for pogroms and extermination – of third parties, as it were. It may have been a post hoc rationalisation incorporated into nationalistic folklore but it doesn’t make sense or ring true.
No excuses for Bandera, he and his movement chose the excesses of Nazism and probably went further in terms of murderous behaviour and racist policy. It’s not something to be proud of, but was born from horrible treatment for Ukrainians at the hands of the Soviets. People do desperate things in desperate situations and I think there is too little examination of the terrible things done by the Soviet Union.
I reckon Hunka still has his Waffen SS tattoo.
And no, the the fact that many Ukrainians feverishly joined up to slaughter Jews during World War II had zero to do with the Holodomor, Soviet rule, and so on. Anti-Semitism in Ukraine runs deep and has run deep for centuries. Ukraine is a vast Jewish cemetery. In 1919 and 1920, in Ukraine alone, over 100,000 Jews were murdered.
As for Hunka being lauded in the Canadian parliament, without a doubt that nasty, insister, vile totalitarian Freeland knew his history. But as mentioned above, apart from the Jewish dead, it makes a mockery of the brave Canadian soldiers who fought the Nazis.
By the way….
“The Normandy massacres were a series of killings in-which approximately 156 Canadian and two British prisoners of war (POWs) were murdered by soldiers of the 12th SS Panzer Division (Hitler Youth) during the Battle of Normandy in World War II.”
And now Canada’s parliament gives a standing ovation to a former member of the SS.
The West has fallen.
Oh and Vladimir Putin has been right about Ukraine from the beginning.
Well, yeah. Banderism is the unofficial state religion of Ukraine. When your nation-state has no real history before the Soviet era, unhinged hatred for everything Russian becomes the basis for Ukrainian identity. The language, culture and history of the Ruthenians/Ukrainians are so closely intertwined with those of the Russians it takes an extreme process of cultural abnegation to separate yourself into a distinct ethnic identity. You see milder forms of it with the Scots vs. the English and the Quebecois vs. the Anglo Canadians.
It explains the mythology behind the Holodomor – undoubtedly a tragedy of mass starvation, but one shared by Russians and other soviet peoples under economically incompetent communists – as the defining moment of Ukrainian national martyrdom at the hands of the evil Muscovites. It also explains the weird cognitive dissonance around Nazi collaboration – so long as you were fighting the Soviets/Muscovites anything was permitted.
Bandera was a vicious mediocrity and his followers are trapped in a hateful cult of victimhood. We in the West are backing this degeneracy because of neocon lunacy that is similarly irrationally russophobic. What’s particularly wild to me as an observer is that all of this information is available, in plain sight, but Western populations are so aggressively propagandised that we’re just going along with this madness unquestioningly. As you say, it IS astonishing, but here we are.
“Fyodor says:
26 September, 2023 at 9:15 am”
I think you’ve said it best.
As he usually does. I hadn’t thought of contemporary Ukrainian identity as being a contrivance (for the sake of differentiation) in those terms. It’s adolescent, psychologically, when you think about it.
I should also add that Ukrainian Waffen SS squads not only murdered Jews, they also went around murdering Poles, Hungarians and Gypsies.
That video…
“Justin Trudeau is so unhinged it’s not funny anymore.”
Watch till the end:
https://twitter.com/AmazingZoltan/status/1705653775489507390
Ivan the Terrible aka John Demjanjuk was Ukrainian.
Incidentally one of the problems identifying him was there was more than one ‘Ivan the Terrible ‘ employed in German extermination camps.
All good posts and information from all… thank you.
That video is scary CL.
I would also make the observation that baby face Trudeau uses the exact cadence in his speech as an evangelical preacher.
Trudeau apologizes to Canadian Jews – obvious Russian propaganda!
Well, sure, Ukraine can be a bad place with lots of corruption and nasty people. So is Russia, and it was Russia that attacked Ukraine. If Ukraine is rife with anti-semitism, how is it that the current president is of Jewish descent? It’s not as though the Ukrainian people who elected him didn’t know his background. And lastly, if people on the Right appear to have more of a nationalistic bent these days, how is Russia’s attempted invasion tolerated?
But isn’t this Europe, or at least it’s “Europe” because westerners know more about it than elsewhere? So what’s new here? I can’t think of a single European country that doesn’t have grievances against some other ethnic or other group, some going back a thousand years or more. Whether it’s contrived or not, the Ukrainian people’s desire is to be part of the Western European grouping. Even if people share the same ethic lineage, they may not want to share the same political or economic system.
That’s why they had the US-sponsored coup after they incorrectly voted for a pro-Russian president, right? To remind them what they really want.
John,
I believe the current president, with an ethnically Jewish background, was legitimately elected, and the population appears to be supporting efforts to counter the Russian invasion, so you tell me then, what do Ukrainians really want?
As for performing coups and other assorted misdeeds, the Russian regime is not exactly a clean skin.
The problem with the Holodomor claim is that Western Ukraine at the time was part of Poland, not the Soviet Union, so the areas of Ukraine that were part of the latter were largely ethnic Russian.
And some people believe Biden was also legitimately elected.
Jokes aside, let’s not forget a few years of bombing of Eastern Ukraine with few thousands dead as a result. The region that would have overwhelmingly voted for a pro-Russian candidate. Do you think Ukrainian officials installed since 2014 allowed a fair election there? In a country that is even more corrupt than the US is now?
Do you think any candidate with the truly pro-Russian platform was allowed to participate? BTW, part of Zelenskiy’s platform was normalising relationships with Russia. I’m sure many people got swayed by that too.
Now we now that the Minsk agreement was agreed to by the West (let’s not pretend that Ukraine had much say in this) to prepare the Ukrainian army (see A. Merkel). You might ask prepare for what? Did they know the Russia would attack in any case? Or was drawing Russia into a war was a plan all along, as Stoltenberg hinted at recently?
I think the plan is (was?) to destroy Russia. To break it up. Maybe they underestimated Russian military abilities or overestimated what they can achieve through a proxy by providing military support or maybe the “big reveal” is still ahead of us – I don’t know.
After the bombs started falling people obviously change their minds and harden their resolve. I talked to one older guy from Kharkiv (now in AU as a refugee) who was very pro-Russian before the conflict started, but quickly changed his mind when he had to leave home. The war is a tragedy, nobody denies that.
Maybe in a long past, and only if you conflate USSR with Russia. But for the last 30 years (at least), I reckon the US was the force for evil around the world. Well, not really the US, but the people who run it. Majority of Americans are good and lovely people in my experience.
Now the Western NGOs are putting money into stirring anti-Russian sentiment in Kazakhstan too. There are still around 30% of ethnical Russians there and a majority of Kazakhs can speak Russian too. Historically this was the Soviet republic, and then a country with very little ethnical strife. They are trying to change it now.
Do they? Must be crazy.
Wouldn’t the better comparison for corruption be next door: Russia?
Ukraine election
1. Vote tallies corresponded with exit polls.
2. There was a non-government parallel court that judged the count to be fair and reasonable.
3. There were international observers who deemed the election fair without many hitches or cases of widespread fraud.
It would be a good idea to counter these facts with more than mere assertions.
Zelensky was basically neutral, as you also assert.
I read the transcript, and I disagree that he made the claim that they set a trap for Russia. The other point to mention is that Stoltenberg made reference to some of the untenable demands made by Russia that NATO would need to retreat from all pre-1997 norders. That means Russia was not negotiating with a straight bat as that was never going to happen.
Russia has nuclear weapons, and the only way to destroy Russia would be through a serious nuclear exchange, which would mean the end of the civilized world. That has never been on the cards. What has been though is the objective of countering Russia.
Russia has shown itself to be a bit-player when it comes to conventional weapon use. I suspect that their nuclear missiles wouldn’t work.
I’m sure a lot of people feel like that now.
The US is self-interested, but it’s not evil.
How do you know this isn’t just Russian propaganda, seeing as every single senior position in Putin’s regime has intel roots? Russia is a country run by its intel apparatus.
Yes they are. Or maybe just very naïve. Admittedly it’s very hard to accept that what you believed in all your life was a lie. What’s the quote? It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they’ve been fooled?
And Ukraine is even more corrupt than Russia. That’s an awesome feat to achieve. The US congress critters prefer Ukraine to do their money-laundering for a reason. Although they do have some dealings with Russian oligarchs too, but on a much lower scale.
At least he presented himself like that. And we know that political candidates never lie, right? Especially the ones who come seemingly out of nowhere. Like Obama, for example.
And who broke the Minsk agreement? It wasn’t Russia.
Here I agree with you. And I don’t have the 100% reliable sources. But the neo-con Brookings? Really? That’s your source?
Yes, as it was promised to Russia after USSR broke down. There is a reason why the US is called the Empire of Lies in Russia. Nowadays NATO only exists as a way for the US MIC to sell their weapons to their “allies”, who they hurt without a second thought when they need to (Nordstream anyone?) and to maintain the US paper money as an international currency.
If you weaken a country to a point where it can’t hold it together, especially a country as big as Russia, you won’t need to use nuclear weapons. Do you think Moscow will use nuclear weapons against Russia’s, say, far-East, if they decide to secede?
All the more reasons to have a plan to break it up.
Like you can call a sociopath self-interested?
It doesn’t make sense to stir a conflict when you’re already in one in a completely different geo location and your resources are already stretched.
We also know how US state dep operates. And that looks like them… again.
John:
It’s essentially incorrect to dismiss the Brookings paper without debating the concerns raised.
You and others who aren’t very fond of Ukraine or NATO pay little attention to the pressures that the US may have faced from former Soviet enslaved countries eager not only to break free but also to join a defence organisation like NATO out of fear of Russia. This dread and hatred were and remain quite real. European countries would have put pressure on the US, and possibly the US governments caved in rather than presuming America’s intention was to deceive Russia.
Romania, Hungary, Latvia, Poland, and even East Germany, the Czechs, and others broke away and sought safety.
Can you imagine the very upsetting and emotive discussions that may have occurred by these countries formerly in the Soviet orbit with the West?
All of this chatter about Ukraine: Ukraine has not been allowed to join NATO or the EU in the roughly 30 years since the separation and collapse of the Berlin Wall. The West has definitely given Ukraine hope that it will be allowed sometime, but this seems like a never-ending promise. Ukraine is not a member of NATO or the EU due to a lack of effort on their (Ukriane’s) part.
Meanwhile, Five Eyes, unlike sovereign Russian intel, ‘shares’ data among the agencies, no agency caring to admit to either subservience or supremacy while spying on its own citizens for the good of the democratic community as a whole. Some apparatus.